DCT > Manual. Unpopular Opinion.

"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
03/19/2016 at 20:15 • Filed to: None

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Top Gear did a drag race between the RS, Golf R, and A45 AMG. It’s pretty clear that if Ford had bothered to put a dual clutch in the RS, it would have at least beaten the Golf R. It just seems silly to me that in this age someone bothers to sell an AWD road-rally thing without a DCT. It’s like going out for french fries and being told that the restaurant only has mayonnaise and not ketchup - and there never will be any ketchup served here - because mayonnaise is for purists.

Congrats America. Our car is mayonnaise

DISCUSSION (23)

Sam > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:21

They didn’t put a DCT in the RS? That is just stupid.

TheJWT > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:24

If all you’re going to be doing with it is drag racing A45s and Golf Rs, I can see how this would be a problem.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:26

I love mayonnaise on french fries so I’m not complaining.

Wait, I’m a bit drunk right now. What are we talking about here?

Montalvo > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:28

I think you are missing the point completely, now would it be great if they did offer an AT version absolutely. But would have it been better? Nope, nope and nope. The enthusiast market is an odd one because it seems so flip floppy in terms of is MT better than AT, the reason behind it though is entirely based on application. Some cars a AT works better and that is just the way it is but for others the only option is to row your own. Hot hatches like the RS are in the eyes of many better with a manual even if it might not be as fast but because it is more enjoyable and fitting to the car. I was going to buy one but I couldn’t wait long enough for the release but I am looking forward in a bit where I might get one and if they had offered it in AT I wouldn’t have checked that option box. Really in the end it’s to each their own. If you really want that DCT well there are other plenty of good options around.

djmt1 > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:32

Alternatively having a manual could be the reason why you win the group test you were involved in just before the drag race. http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-r…

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > TheJWT
03/19/2016 at 20:32

That’s excactly what we enthusiasts are doing all day long, isn’t it? Drag race cars in the same price range and/or class. If you’re a bit more ambitious race them on a track with some not straight bits thrown in the mix!

Fastest time wins our hearts and minds and everything else is pointless.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:36

Even a good torque converter automatic can be better than a manual. Especially in ultra-powerful cars, such as the Hellcat or the new Z06.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > TheJWT
03/19/2016 at 20:37

Edit: The fastest is always the best!

Except the Veyron of course. The Veyron is awful in every way!

DoYouEvenShift > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:41

Autos are way quicker! But manuals are 100x more fun. My opinion.

marshknute > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 20:53

I’ll concede it should have a DCT option, but it would really ruin the car’s fun personality. FFS, it has a drift mode, so it’s so obviously not about numbers.

But if it’s a 600hp RWD supercar, your argument makes sense. With that kind of potential, the only way to get the most out of the car is with a DCT.

That said, I’d take a manual supercar over a DCT any day just for the experience. So here’s a gated manual Ferrari 599 for your troubles:

Kinja'd!!!

derf > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 21:03

If I’m at a restaurant that only serves mayonnaise and not ketchup with fries, it’s probably Belgian or French and there’s a good chance the fries in question were cooked in tasty, tasty duck fat. Dammit, now I’m hungry.

I take your point though. Personally, I’d still probably choose the manual, but I’m not silly enough to think it’d be faster, or that a DCT means the car is automatically less fun. For one thing, left foot braking becomes a lot more feasible.

Busslayer > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
03/19/2016 at 21:30

And slushboxes also work great with turbos, at least for strictly straight line acceleration contests. Load the turbo up on the converter and let er rip plus no boost fall off during shifts.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Busslayer
03/19/2016 at 21:32

And slushboxes can take huge power, and are typically insanely reliable. Plus, no clutch to replace.

Nick Has an Exocet > Montalvo
03/19/2016 at 21:44

True that there are other options.

But this car will be driven in traffic. It has 4 doors and a hatch. It should have a DCT.

You know what I think the problem is? Ford can’t build a good DCT. They don’t get it. They don’t know how. And the Golf has one of the best in the business. They didn’t want to risk it.

Busslayer > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
03/19/2016 at 21:48

Lots of good things with old school autos. That said, I still wouldn’t want one, or a DCT, in a Focus RS. Not in character for that kind of car.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Busslayer
03/19/2016 at 22:22

I agree on the slushbox part, although big, meaty paddles and a factory hydro e-brake in a Focus RS would be heaps sick.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Nick Has an Exocet
03/19/2016 at 23:30

Agreed. Personally I prefer speed. And more importantly I prefer not to spend some of my concentration on shifting when it could be used elsewhere such as being aware of all the traffic around me or even just improving my line through a corner while still being safe. I prefer to focus on everything around me outside of the car rather than spend some of that focus on shifting. Yeah, better drivers probably don’t have this problem, shifting is probably second nature to them, but I know my limits and I’m not an amazing driver. I’ve owned manual cars and they’re loads of fun, but I still prefer a good auto.

And try driving a defender manual pulling a trailer through stop and go rush hour traffic for an hour. Not fun.

wafflesnfalafel > Nick Has an Exocet
03/20/2016 at 00:21

DCTs are clearly faster, especially with turbo motors - and if that is the goal then I completely agree. I think they are pretty darn cool pieces of machinery - the speed at which they shift really is amazing. Some of the vid of the BMW M series DCT equipped vehicles or even the VWs is incredible. But I still prefer making the car do what I want it to, when I want it to. I know that is a personal preference - I know tons of folks that prefer that super quick off the line push of an automatic, and honestly, 80% of the driving public doesn’t want to be bothered at all and will take any kind of automatic as long as it gets them to where they need to go. But ketchup tastes weird on my sandwich - I prefer mayonnaise.

Nick Has an Exocet > AMGtech - now with more recalls!
03/20/2016 at 00:58

I hear you. I think when people hear DCT - they think “automatic”. In a performance car, that’s really just not the case. You can shift manually all the time if you want - and you don’t have to worry about your left leg getting worn out. Plus, they shift faster than a traditional manual.

Nick Has an Exocet > wafflesnfalafel
03/20/2016 at 01:03

The line between automatic and DCT is real. I don’t think many enthusiasts get that. You said “I still prefer making the car do what I want it to, when I want it to”. I don’t get how that’s different in a paddle shift DCT. You can still bang off the rev limiter all day. You can still launch the car. You can still grab whatever gear you want when you want it. In fact, you can shift 3 gears faster than most people can shift 1 with a traditional manual.

What can you do with a manual that you can’t do with a DCT (in respect to the Focus RS)?

KirkyV > Nick Has an Exocet
03/20/2016 at 02:12

“Congrats America. Our car is mayonnaise.”

I like mayonnaise. And besides, if you don’t want it, it’ll always have a home in Europe, like every other RS-badged Ford that’s never even been sold in America.

In any case, the manual is specifically cited as part of why it won the actual group test.

marshknute > Nick Has an Exocet
03/20/2016 at 02:30

“What can you do with a manual that you can’t do with a DCT (in respect to the Focus RS)?”

Have fun.

Look, I get that DCT’s are objectively better in every way, but it just neuterers the whole experience. It's like riding a roller coaster: fast and thrilling, but you're nothing more than a passenger. I have literally zero interest in driving a DCT FoRS. But the thought of a manual FoRS keeps me up at night.

Nick Has an Exocet > marshknute
03/20/2016 at 02:37

Weird. I just don’t get it. I’ve driven DCT’s, Manual’s, and Slushboxes. I would take them in that order every time.